240 The Siege of Justice: Debating Bard’s Claims in “The Gathering of the Clouds” in The Hobbit

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[SPEAKER_00]: Today we wander the chapter, the gathering of the clouds, from J.R.R.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien's The Hobbit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Prepare to embark on a thrilling adventure as we explore the mysteries of talking animals, decipher the contrasting nature of dwarves and hobbits, and delve into the intricacies of Bard's claims for Thorin's treasure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: From unexpected alliances to profound moral dilemmas, join us as we uncover the untold tales and invite you to be part of the magic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the lore of the ring's episode 114, and I'm Erin, your host and fellow middle-earth wanderer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Before we delve deeper into the realms of Middle-earth, I want to invite you to find the show on social media.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The lore of the Ring's podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Join our community of Middle-Earth wanderers by following the show using the links provided in the show notes, or simply search for lore of the Ring's podcast, and tap that follow button.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been experimenting with AI generated images inspired by Tolkien's words in the Hobbit, and posting those images on social media.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let me know what you think of those.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's connect and share the magic together.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to delve deeper into a topic we've touched on before, but haven't explored in detail, talking animals in the Hobbit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In this chapter, we encounter some fascinating instances of animals with the ability to communicate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For instance, we have the Thresh, the same bird that conversed with Bard the Man, understanding the dwarves and Bilbo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Additionally, an old Raven speaks to the dwarves in the Commentung.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien's works feature several talking animals, and here's a rapid fire non-exhaustive list for context.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In the Silmarillion, Juan the Hound provides Council to bear in during his quest to reclaim a Silmaril and when Lutherans hand.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Eagles, in both the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, also possess the power of speech.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, it's worth noting that Eagles are unique as they are embodied Myr, spiritual beings who serve the Valar the Gods of the World.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not forget that delightful surprise of a fox in encountering hobbits in the wild during the fellowship of the ring.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In his essay on fairy stories, Tolkien contemplates talking animals and their significance in fantasy literature.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He explains that this element derives from a primal desire for men to commune with other living things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: According to Tolkien, quote, The desire of men to hold communion with other living things lies near the heart of fairy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien emphasizes that animals talking alone is not sufficient to classify a story as fantasy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He distinguishes between mere beast fables and true fairy stories.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Animals talking on its own is not enough to call a story fantasy, quote, but the speech of beasts in a beast fable as developed into a separate branch has little reference to that desire, and often wholly forgets it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In stories in which no human being is concerned, or in which the animals are the heroes and heroines, and men and women, if they appear, are mere adjuncts.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And above all those in which the animal form is only a mask upon a human face, a device of the styroist or the preacher, in these we have Beast Fable and not fairy story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For him, the true essence lies in the magical understanding of the proper languages of creatures of nature.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Quote, the magical understanding by men of the proper languages of birds and beast and trees, that is much near to the true purposes of fairy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Take Bard and the Thresh, for example.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard doesn't suddenly acquire the ability to speak bird language.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Instead, through the magic of his family line, which stems from Dale, he can comprehend the Thresh's message.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A similar enchantment enables the Ravens to communicate with the dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is evident when the thrush attempts to convey something, and Ballon turns to Bilbo, and acquiring if the Hobbit can understand the bird's speech.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo, being his clever self, responds with a bluff to say face, quote, not very well, said Bilbo, as a matter of fact, he could make nothing of it at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the old fellow seems very excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, talking animals in Tolkien's works serve as conduits of crucial information and contribute to the characters' understanding of their

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not merely about animals speaking, but about the magic and connection they bring to the narrative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Continuing our exploration, this chapter once again brings to light the stark differences between Hobbits and the other races of Middle-earth, specifically dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As the dwarves make their way back to the lonely mountain, their determination to go to war in defense of their ancestral treasure becomes evident.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Ever consumed by greed and their insatiable lust for gold, the dwarves have grown audacious.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, Bilba remains grounded, with his focus still centered on the simple comforts of life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When Thorn declares, quote, we have little time to lose, Bilba quickly retorts, quote, and little food to use.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien reminds us of Bilbo's nature, highlighting that he was, quote, always practical on such points.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As the dwarves, being Master Stone Masons, utilize tools from the mountain to construct a stone wall, blocking the entrance to their kingdom, we witness Bilbo's nature once again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He harbors a desire for a peaceful resolution, stating that he, quote, would have given most of his share of the profits for the peaceful winding up of these fairs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This exemplifies Bilbo's inherent inclination towards harmony and resolution admits the brewing conflict.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The contrasting music in this chapter further underscores the differences among the races.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In the Elven Camp down the valley, the air is filled with the enchanting melodies of Elven Harps, and Bilbo finds himself yearning to be part of the singing and feasting in their company, rather than trapped inside the mountain.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In response to the elven music, the dwarves offer their own song, reminiscent of the one they sang long ago in Bilbo's humble Hobbit Hall.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you recall, that song had both waken to Bilbo's adventures took side, while simultaneously filling him with fear and leading to, quote, very uncomfortable dreams.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Through these instances, Tolkien's skillfully contrasts the values, desires, and natures of the various races in Middle-earth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The chapter serves as a point-and-reminder of Bilbo's unique perspective, and his unyielding attachment to simplicity and peace, admits the turbulent circumstances.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have one more insight to wander into with you, our Bard's claims on Thorin's treasured just.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to that right after this break.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For my final thoughts today, I want to explore Bard's claims on the treasurer of Arobor and answer this question.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Does Bard have a just claim on the treasurer?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard provides three arguments, first, that by his hand the dragon smock perished, therefore Thor and O's hymnsome compensation for that service, secondly smong the dragon also rated Dale, Bard's ancestral home, and combined Dale's treasurer with that of Arobor.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, Smog destroyed Lake Town where the dwarves received aid in their time of need.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What are your thoughts on these arguments?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Did they seem just to you?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo certainly thought so, quote, these were fair words and true, and Bilbo thought that Thorin would advance admit what justice was in them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I happen to agree with Bill, though.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think Bard's three arguments for claiming Thorne's treasure are just and should be honored.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard's first claim is that he deserves repayment for his heroic act of slaying the dragon smog, which directly led to the liberation of the Lonely Mountain and the recovery of Thorne's treasure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This argument holds merit as barred risked his life and displayed exceptional courage to protect his people and his town.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Smogs menace and the devastation he caused are undeniable, and barred's actions contributed uniquely and exclusively, Thorin was no help at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: To the downfall of the dragon, therefore barred's claim for a portion of the treasure

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[SPEAKER_00]: One counter-argument to this could assert that Thorin's lineage and rightful ownership of the treasure predate Bard's involvement.

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[SPEAKER_00]: From this perspective, Bard's slaying of smog was merely an act of self-defense, or protecting his own interests, rather than a heroic act specifically for the benefit of Thorin and the dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thus, Bard's claim for repayment might be considered secondary to the inherent rights of the dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, I still think that Bard's claim is justified, for without his direct actions, the dwarves would have no actionable claim on their treasure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Smog would simply eat them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So not only do the dwarves owe Bard for their treasure, they owe him for their very lives.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard's second argument is that Smog had plundered and hortic treasure not only from the lonely mountain, but also from the city of Dale, which was located nearby.

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[SPEAKER_00]: borrowed represents the people of Dale, who suffered greatly due to the dragon's greed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As rifle owners of the stolen treasure, the people of Dale have a legitimate claim to its return.

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[SPEAKER_00]: By reclaiming the treasure, it can be used for the rebuilding and restoration of their ravaged city.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore honoring this claim would serve the cause of justice and assist in the recovery of a once thriving civilization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In addition to that, Thorin's sharing of the treasure to rebuild Dale would be a generous act of goodwill that would do wonders in forging alliances and even friendships that would be an echo of the friendships of old between Eribor and Dale.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The third argument, put forth by Bard, is that the people of Lake Town provided crucial aid to the dwarves when they arrived as refugees, seeking help to reclaim their homeland and treasure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Inhabitants of Lake Town sheltered and supported the dwarves, providing resources and manpower.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, their assistance led to the wrath of Smog, resulting in the devastating destruction of their town.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard argues that the dwarves should acknowledge the sacrifice and extend some reparation to the survivors.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Recognizing the invaluable aid rendered and the hardships endured, honoring this claim would be a just response.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, a contrary viewpoint might contend that the destruction and suffering experienced by Lake Town were unfortunate, but not necessarily the responsibility of the dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It could be argued that the consequences of aiding the dwarves in their quest were unforeseen, and could be attributed to the whims of fate or the unpredictable nature of conflicts with dragons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: After all, the people of Lake Town knowingly lived within a couple hours flying distance from a real

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the dwarves' fault their town was destroyed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In this view, compensating late town for their consequences of their own choices may not be an obligation for the dwarves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While Bard's arguments for claiming Thorin's treasure possessed strong justifications, opposing viewpoints after valid concerns as well, regrettably all parties involved underestimated the insidious grip that the treasure had taken on Thorin's heart.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As the chapter states, quote, long hours in the past days, Thorin had spent in the treasury, and the lust of it was heavy on him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: During the negotiations at the gate, Thorn selectively addresses only one of the claims, agreeing to compensate the people of Lake Town for their services.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, he largely ignores the other claims, displaying his inherent Norvish estinginess.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bard and the elves, in a final attempt at resolution, present Thorn with an opportunity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They propose that Thorn pays Bard one-twelfth of the treasure, from which Bard himself

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thorin would part with only a fraction of the treasure within the mountain and, on her all three claims.

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[SPEAKER_00]: However, Thorin admittedly refuses this proposition, even when shown mercy as the mountain becomes besieged.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The besiegers refrain from bearing weapons against the dwarves, leaving them to their coveted gold.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, poor Bilbo finds himself believing that the adventure has concluded.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Being a habit, the allure of gold holds little sway over him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He is tooly recognizes that quote, the whole place still stinks of dragon.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And being honest, to others, Bilbo still possesses the arcane stone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A small, but significant leverage, that he hopes might alter the course of the siege.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But that intriguing development will be explored in a future episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Today we have explored fascinating elements from the chapter The Gathering of the Clouds in J.R. or Tolkien's The Hobbit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We delve into the presence of talking animals, emphasizing their magical nature and significance in the narrative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Additionally, we examine the contrasting nature of dwarves and hobbits as depicted in their attitudes towards wealth, comfort, and war.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, we analyzed Bart's claims for Thorn's treasure, considering their justness and some counter-arguments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Join us in our next episode, as we unravel the on-screen adaptation of this chapter, in Peter Jackson's third Hobbit film.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to share this episode with fellow Middle-Earth Wonderer to spread the joy of wondering the world and works of J.R.R.R.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tolkien.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for wondering Middle-Earth with me today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My friends, if you enjoyed this episode, let me know by subscribing, leaving your review and sharing with your friends.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Until next Thursday, remember, at all those who want to, are lost.